How to Spot Red Flags in Admission Agreements, Part 3

*The following is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

The following podcast is by Mr Jim Taylor, elder law and special needs attorney, helping and protecting those who need long term care. And Welcome back everyone to answers for elder’s radio network with Jim Taylor, elder law attorney in Richfield, Ohio, who is talking about a lot of federal issues. And Jim, you’ve been overseeing giving us a lot of information about what our rights are as we’re stepping up and, you know, bringing in a loved one into a skilled nursing facility or system living, and thank you for sharing a lot of this information. I’m like, wow, I had no idea. So we’re talking now this next segment about what, Jim, we’re gonna be talking about where the nursing homework system living asks a family member tally or forces or tricks a family member and who taking responsibility for payment Um if they don’t get fully paid at by the resident, and this often happens when Medicaid doesn’t follow through or there’s an improper transfer in the history of the resident or something like that. I remember distinctly an issue with Um, with payment, with my mom when she was being Um qualified for Medicaid. Um. There was an issue with payment, and so I’m very interested in hearing a little bit about that. Okay, about you know how how I why? I was I served paper about her payment. Yep, okay. So most nursing home and assisted living agreements now have a place where they want somebody else from the family to sign the agreement, as what’s most often called the resident representative. It maybe, and for those of you listening, I got air quotes around resident representative. Okay, they may use a different term, but this is the one I see most often here in Ohio. Do you have to be that that resident representative? HAVE TO BE POWER OF ATTORNEY? No, but that’s where they usually get a family member to sign by saying, Oh, you’re you’re on the power of attorney, you’re the agent. That’s what we call them in Ohio anyway. Um, you need to sign this, okay. Um, and nursing homes are demanding that, at least around here. Um, there are ways around it, but some nursing homes, dones, don’t let you get away with the way around it. Okay, and some of these are just plain ugly. Okay. So, uh, what they know? This is under federal rules. Okay, the resident representative under these clauses, as this is the clause in the agreement. Now, okay, but this is subject to federal rule. The resident representative will promise to pay from the residents money. Okay, that doesn’t sound like a big deal. But it goes on to say that the represent resident representative has, making air quotes, sole control of the resident’s money. Well, that’s almost never true. If you are the agent under power of Attorney Law in Ohio, and I suspect it’s pretty much the same in all the other states, you may be on there and have ability to to spend the residents money. The the principle of the on the power of attorney, you’re the agent, at least in Ohio’s terminology. The principles the person who signed it. I’m mom. I’m his MOM’s agent. My mom signed the power of attorney extending her powers to me. Mom is still own her bank account. Power of attorney does not give anyone soul control over anything in Ohio, and I suspect that’s true in all the other states. Okay, the only time that anyone has soul control of someone else’s money is when they are a guardian and have control of the money it may be conservator in other states, like California, example. You know how you have to be guardian of the estate in Ohio because also guarding the person. You don’t have control of the money at all under that. Okay, and guardianship is a state animal, by the way, so it may be different different states. Um, but in Ohio anyway you don’t have soul control of anything unless the probate court makes you guarding of the estate. Okay. So, uh, by signing you have so control. You’ve already lied and they you have represented to the nursing on something that’s not true and they know what’s not true. If they don’t know it’s not true, they’re really stupid. But the person asks you to sign it doesn’t know any difference. The admission person who’s handing you this to sign doesn’t know the difference, doesn’t know. Guarding chip lack is not going to be handed to you by the nursing homes attorney who knows better. But they write these clauses anyway. Okay. And then it goes on to say that the resident representative, the family member, volunteers making air quotes. They’re volunteering to guarantee payment to the nursing home. That means out of their own money. Okay, under federal rules nursing homes cannot demand that family member guarantee payment, but they can accept if family members volunteer to guarantee payment. So now they’ve done is put that volunteer thing into an agreement and if you don’t realize it’s there and sign this new butid thing, you’ve now volunteered. And I’ve I’ve dealt with nursing homes like that. When I mentioned that had five or six illegal clauses in it where they weren’t kind of budget. This person was going to volunteer. Well, that’s certainly not voluntary, is it? But it’s on paper is voluntary. Okay, Um, and I’ve seen this only one time, but this one’s really wild. The resident representative agrees to take in the resident if the nursing home or assistant living discharges this happened to be a nursing home. If the assistant at the nursing home discharges the resident, the resident representative agrees to take them in. This is a shortcut way of meeting the state and federal rules on a safe place for someone to go. If the nursing home doesn’t want to keep him anymore. You volunteered, if you sign this, to be the place where they discharge, even if you cannot take care of your loved one. You volunteered by signing this. Okay. So how to get around this one? Look for it, cross it out. Um, that would may draw attention. You may not want. I I do it by digging my heels, but then I’m also the loudmouth attorney that can argue with the nursing homes attorney. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. This is a negotiation, okay. Um, you can sign it and put as p o a, you can have the residents sign every line and even as resident and presentative, and then the admission here. A person may not know the difference and it just oh I needed someone else to sign here. They may not know the difference of you sign using comic P o a or as power of attorney or whatever is appropriating your state, because if you sign as power of attorney now you’re not signing as your individual person, you’re signing as they. So, uh, you don’t want to agree to this crap if you can avoid it, okay, because if there’s a medicaid screw up, and there’s plenty of Medicaid screw ups and some of them are, frankly, I think, at least in Ohio, intentional screw ups by Medicaid. Then the resident representative, the family member, becomes the GUARANTEUR of the private pay rate. This is exactly my story, Jim. I want you to know that. This is my story with my mother. It really happened to me. Yeah, I got served papers saying that unless I paid Um, as certain I think it was, three months of her rent because because the power of attorney that she had appointed was taking her own sweet time and getting my mother qualified for Medicaid and there was a mix up in her paperwork and medicated and rejected, and so they got a notice and I was not her power of attorney, but when I admitted her, I signed the paperwork with her, because you had they had to, and so they actually said that unless, I think they gave me ten days to come up with three months worth the rent Um, or they were going to deliver her to my doorstep. And I was like, I’m not even power of attorney, I didn’t even know and I there’s no way I could have taken care of my mom Um and I had to at that time. I will never forget how scary it was, how over where. I mean I felt like I was pushed back into a corner and I didn’t even have any control over what was going on with their application with Medicaid because it was a different person that was doing it in the family. Yeah, yeah, that’s the problem. That’s a real, real situation. It is, it is, I’ve seen it. I try to keep it from happening in my clients families. Um, and uh, you know, my clients have the advanced my clients and their families have the advantage of having a lawyer and it’s been there, done that. Um. I have spoken at to a group from probate court on admission agreements and how to take care of people in nursing homes. Uh, you know, looking out after care and but with Mr Greements was a big part of that. I’ve spoken several times at Ohio State Bar Association seminars and I’m probably gonna end up doing it again next year because they have a beginning level seminar for elder law attorneys and I talk about care, including admission agreements, and then N B I. As you see from these slides asked me to do it nationally. So I probably have looked at more these admission agreements than any other at law attorney who doesn’t work well out of law attorney. Now, there were any other turney that didn’t work for a nursing home or assisted living, and I’ve really tried to acquaint myself with these things so that my clients don’t don’t stumble over these potholes. Sure, sure, talking real money here. This is finally, I never could understand why I was the it Um and not this power of attorney. Yeah, yeah, because you volunteered. I was the one that was always there and I was the one that was so very interesting. So, Jim, what are we going to be moving into in our next segment? So our next segment we’re actually getting away from the admission agreements. We’re gonna be talking about the experience you had and threats to this charge, your loved one. Oh Boy, I know this story so well and you know and and to those of you that are listening and and or watching on Youtube, these are real stories and I am a testament. I always say I’m the poster child for everything that could have gone wrong in the care of my mom too. You know, it did go wrong. It’s like because I thought I was making right decisions, but I didn’t know what I was doing and had I had an elder law attorney liked him, that would help advise me through this p part. So please, when you’re involved in this, this legal stuff is so important and because there’s little things that will bite you in the ankle if you do not Um, you know, pay attention to live in detail. So, Jim, thank you so much and we’re looking forward to our next segment coming up right after this. State of Ohio residents, you have a friend to help you navigate long term care while protecting your assets. You can reach Jim at www dot protecting seniors dot com, or just email him at J K O E W L E R Pyphen a F e. that’s J Kaylor a F E at protecting seniors dot com.